В том что Б. не считает нормально тени.. если инетересно читайте-это с официального форума.
Messages in Thread: Rendering animations
Rendering animations Kenn Macintosh (kennmac) 03.06.03 - 10.40 AM (PST)
I see a lot of cool still images that are rendered with Brazil. This is all fine and dandy. How does Brazil (or other 3rd party renders for that matter) handle a 5000-10000 frame animation? I've looked at finalRender and one of the problems I see there is once you bake a texture onto an object, that texture will change as the camera pans past that object and the texture will have to be re-baked. This goes for the GI solution as well. There is some serious number crunching going on in them CPUs for each frame. If I have a 5000 frame animations, I might as well press, "RENDER" and take a vacation. (I only have 3 PC's on my render farm).
Am I missing the trees for the forest here and making it harder then it is?
Are these 3rd party renders typically used for still images?
Thanks for the feedback.
Kenn
Rendering animations Richard Annema (ZeBoxx) 03.07.03 - 03.34 AM (PST)
H Kenn,
I think most of the renderers can handle animation pretty well.. each will have their own set of pros and cons, of course - Brazil r/s handles the image sampling really well.
I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say that finalRender has to re-bake the textures for each frame; textures are generally already pre-applied to object, and there shouldn't be any extra calculation needed unless the artist wants to 'flatten' their map stack - and even that is best handled outside of the renderer.
However - once global illumination gets into play, things can get a little more hairy.
In Brazil r/s, the only caching that occurs is of the Photon Map itself - this means that it doesn't suffer from any 'popping' that may occur with other applications. On the flipside, however, it will 'interpret' this Photon Map for every single frame.
It is possible to 'bake' the whole scene's GI into the scene with some engines - however, this only stores diffuse components of the GI solution (since storing directional information would take massive amounts of memory/storage space.)
Engines such as Lightscape will do this - it combines a pure diffuse radiosity engine with a raytracer to get directional effects (reflection/refraction, not directional/non-lambertian radiosity.)
So each method, again, has its pros and cons.
I think the latter method is used in animation - but mostly limited to architectural rendering. You can well imagine that storing the global illumination for a building once is just fine, when all you need is a fly-through of the structure.
VFX and other animation generally has moving objects, or even moving lights - and baking the entire GI solution becomes less profitable, as you lose any dynamic effects.
And yes - those types of renders to take a while, so there aren't too many companies doing full GI animations at this point.
That's not to say that GI isn't being put to work - skylight setups are fairly commonplace now, and pre-renders with GI are done to guide artists in their manual lighting setups.
Overall, though, full GI renders are primarily used for stills at this point in time - but that will all change as hardware becomes faster/cheaper
Best regards,
Richard Annema
Rendering animations Johannes Schlцrb (Schloerby) 03.08.03 - 06.25 PM (PST)
I was just stopping by to check for news and read this post, so I thought I'd just clear up this possible misunderstanding:
"once you bake a texture onto an object, that texture will change as the camera pans past that object and the texture will have to be re-baked"
You don't need texture baking in order to cache a GI solution. fR does this automatically, once "reuse solution" is checked. Any missing parts are being adaptively added on the fly as the camera moves. So normally you would have the biggest chunk of GI calculation for the first frame only and then just very little "refinement passes" for all consecutive frames.
Texture baking itself really is only meant to "export" complex lighting solutions to realtime engines etc., you won't usually use it in traditional 3D visualizations. And I guess that is common with all 3rd party renderers as well as MAX5's own renderer.
Cheers!
Schlorby
Rendering animations Matt Donlan (mirage) 03.14.03 - 05.56 AM (PST)
Hey Kenn,
This is matt with Mirage. We recently did a 9500 frame animation in Brazil. You may have seen it at CGarchitect.com around xmas. We did interior and exterior animation of a resort in Maui. We're also working on a new project that will be much larger than that one, but with fewer frames - only 5000. We found that photons are the only way to go. We have our render times at about 10 minutes a frame for exterior / 20 for interior. You can see some clips from our animation at our web site. look under animation...www.mirage-graphics.com
_________________________________________________________________________________
Rendering an animation? Klaus Klausens (Klausens) 10.01.02 - 01.20 PM (PDT)
Hi all! I have seen the new features of the full brazil r/s. We would like to render a student project with this fantastic software. But we were wondering if it?s possible to use brazil for animation. Before we buy it, could you post some experiences with photon maps, GI and animation? Are there some tricks to render the images faster?
Many thanks in advance!
Rendering an animation? scott kirvan (cptvideo) 10.02.02 - 10.27 AM (PDT)
Heya,
Is it possible to use Brazil r/s for animation: yeah It has been from early on - check the flipside artist spotlight on splutterfish.com - that was done with a pre-release of the full version. www.yeahthemovie.de ... there's more, anyone got more links?
The photon maps are cachable, so you don't have to worry about them dancing during animation. Animating with GI isn't super easy as subtle lighting changes have larger effects, but it can be done and people are doing it.
Tricks - use area lights (not geometry lights) for fills. They're fast and using them you can usually rely less on GI and gain a little more control.
Messages in Thread: Rendering animations
Rendering animations Kenn Macintosh (kennmac) 03.06.03 - 10.40 AM (PST)
I see a lot of cool still images that are rendered with Brazil. This is all fine and dandy. How does Brazil (or other 3rd party renders for that matter) handle a 5000-10000 frame animation? I've looked at finalRender and one of the problems I see there is once you bake a texture onto an object, that texture will change as the camera pans past that object and the texture will have to be re-baked. This goes for the GI solution as well. There is some serious number crunching going on in them CPUs for each frame. If I have a 5000 frame animations, I might as well press, "RENDER" and take a vacation. (I only have 3 PC's on my render farm).
Am I missing the trees for the forest here and making it harder then it is?
Are these 3rd party renders typically used for still images?
Thanks for the feedback.
Kenn
Rendering animations Richard Annema (ZeBoxx) 03.07.03 - 03.34 AM (PST)
H Kenn,
I think most of the renderers can handle animation pretty well.. each will have their own set of pros and cons, of course - Brazil r/s handles the image sampling really well.
I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say that finalRender has to re-bake the textures for each frame; textures are generally already pre-applied to object, and there shouldn't be any extra calculation needed unless the artist wants to 'flatten' their map stack - and even that is best handled outside of the renderer.
However - once global illumination gets into play, things can get a little more hairy.
In Brazil r/s, the only caching that occurs is of the Photon Map itself - this means that it doesn't suffer from any 'popping' that may occur with other applications. On the flipside, however, it will 'interpret' this Photon Map for every single frame.
It is possible to 'bake' the whole scene's GI into the scene with some engines - however, this only stores diffuse components of the GI solution (since storing directional information would take massive amounts of memory/storage space.)
Engines such as Lightscape will do this - it combines a pure diffuse radiosity engine with a raytracer to get directional effects (reflection/refraction, not directional/non-lambertian radiosity.)
So each method, again, has its pros and cons.
I think the latter method is used in animation - but mostly limited to architectural rendering. You can well imagine that storing the global illumination for a building once is just fine, when all you need is a fly-through of the structure.
VFX and other animation generally has moving objects, or even moving lights - and baking the entire GI solution becomes less profitable, as you lose any dynamic effects.
And yes - those types of renders to take a while, so there aren't too many companies doing full GI animations at this point.
That's not to say that GI isn't being put to work - skylight setups are fairly commonplace now, and pre-renders with GI are done to guide artists in their manual lighting setups.
Overall, though, full GI renders are primarily used for stills at this point in time - but that will all change as hardware becomes faster/cheaper
Best regards,
Richard Annema
Rendering animations Johannes Schlцrb (Schloerby) 03.08.03 - 06.25 PM (PST)
I was just stopping by to check for news and read this post, so I thought I'd just clear up this possible misunderstanding:
"once you bake a texture onto an object, that texture will change as the camera pans past that object and the texture will have to be re-baked"
You don't need texture baking in order to cache a GI solution. fR does this automatically, once "reuse solution" is checked. Any missing parts are being adaptively added on the fly as the camera moves. So normally you would have the biggest chunk of GI calculation for the first frame only and then just very little "refinement passes" for all consecutive frames.
Texture baking itself really is only meant to "export" complex lighting solutions to realtime engines etc., you won't usually use it in traditional 3D visualizations. And I guess that is common with all 3rd party renderers as well as MAX5's own renderer.
Cheers!
Schlorby
Rendering animations Matt Donlan (mirage) 03.14.03 - 05.56 AM (PST)
Hey Kenn,
This is matt with Mirage. We recently did a 9500 frame animation in Brazil. You may have seen it at CGarchitect.com around xmas. We did interior and exterior animation of a resort in Maui. We're also working on a new project that will be much larger than that one, but with fewer frames - only 5000. We found that photons are the only way to go. We have our render times at about 10 minutes a frame for exterior / 20 for interior. You can see some clips from our animation at our web site. look under animation...www.mirage-graphics.com
_________________________________________________________________________________
Rendering an animation? Klaus Klausens (Klausens) 10.01.02 - 01.20 PM (PDT)
Hi all! I have seen the new features of the full brazil r/s. We would like to render a student project with this fantastic software. But we were wondering if it?s possible to use brazil for animation. Before we buy it, could you post some experiences with photon maps, GI and animation? Are there some tricks to render the images faster?
Many thanks in advance!
Rendering an animation? scott kirvan (cptvideo) 10.02.02 - 10.27 AM (PDT)
Heya,
Is it possible to use Brazil r/s for animation: yeah
It has been from early on - check the flipside artist spotlight on splutterfish.com - that was done with a pre-release of the full version. www.yeahthemovie.de ... there's more, anyone got more links?The photon maps are cachable, so you don't have to worry about them dancing during animation. Animating with GI isn't super easy as subtle lighting changes have larger effects, but it can be done and people are doing it.
Tricks - use area lights (not geometry lights) for fills. They're fast and using them you can usually rely less on GI and gain a little more control.